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 Verfasst am: 01.06.2018 09:44 Titel: Wie giftig ist Karton wirklich? |
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Huhu,
ich muss das irgendwie mal ablegen, dass ich es wieder finde.
Vorab kurz mal, worum es geht:
Bei dem Beitrag geht es um Karton, der gerne im Gartenbereich, z.B. in der Permakultur genutzt wird. Besorgte Gärtner machen sich dabei Gedanken, was da so in den Boden gelangen kann mit dem Karton. Das kann natürlich auch für die Tierhaltung relevant sein. Bedenken sollte man noch, dass es aus Informationen aus Nordamerika handelt, die nicht zwingend für Europa zutreffend sein müssen, solange wir nicht genau wissen, woher unser Karton kommt, ist das letztlich schwierig mit Gewissheit zu sagen, aber ich vermute mal, dass heutzutage wohl auch vieles aus China kommt und beim Recyclingzeug weiss man zudem auch nicht genau, was da alles drin ist und wenn z.B. jemand was in den USA bestellt und den Karton dann bei uns recyclet, landet das Zeug spätestens bei der Wiederverwendung der reccleten Kartons auch wieder bei uns. Daher ist die Wahrscheinlichkeit hoch, dass das auch für uns zutrefend ist.
Quelle:
https://permies.com/t/40/2157/concerns-cardboard-newspaper-mulch
Hier mal der vermutlich wichtigste Teil von Paul Wheaton:
| Zitat: |
(copied with permission)
TOXIC CARDBOARD: An organic gardening expose
By Andy Firk
Boy oh boy, corrugated fiberboard boxes sure are a common sight to see. "Over three quarters of all perishable goods are being shipped in some sort of a cardboard box or corrugated fiberboard container." (J) Now, all cardboards MAY not necessarily contain toxins, but from my research, the vast, vast majority sure do, and holy crap, do they contain some toxins! The percentage of non-toxic cardboard on the market is very low, and quite a mystery to unravel. Just where to obtain such pure cardborad may be difficult or nearly impossible to figure out, as I have learned this week. I have been calling a few of our state's cardboard manufacturing facilities, and I continue to find more chemical processing steps in the manufacturing. Little information is offered up easily by these companies. These manufacturers do not openly discuss the proprietary ingredients used in the manufacturing of cardboard materials. This should be enough information for an organically-inclined person with average intelligence to keep them away from their gardens. From use of cardboard as an under-mulch layer, to a cover for blocking weeds in pathways, there is a commonly held misconception that cardboard is benign, safe, non-toxic, and biodegradable. Nothing could be further from the natural truth. If you are not convinced, please read on.
WHERE DOES THE WOOD PULP MIX FOR CARDBOARD COME FROM?
The pulping process of making paper pulp for cardboard often contains horrible chemicals. Some of the worst polluters in the country are pulp mills. One pulp mill, the Buckeye Pulp Mill, who supplies pulp for corrugated fiberboard among other products, releases enormous levels of DIOXIN into the Gulf Of Mexico, here in Florida. It is ranked as one of the worst polluters in the entire state, if not the worst in terms of certain chemicals being released. Numerous articles and studies attest to this "should-be-closed" mill. The Clean Water Network Of Florida published a concise article a few years back. (G) "According to the 2005 TRI (Toxics Release Inventory), Buckeye reported releasing 240,630 pounds of known cancer-causing toxics, those recognized by OSHA as being carcinogens, to the air and water." (G) In total "Buckeye admitted emitting 19,537,806 pounds of toxics to the EPA's 2005 TRI, ranking Buckeye the most polluting pulp or paper mill in Florida." "Buckeye has been in operation for 53 years, polluting the environment, contaminating the fish, and poisoning the air and water with hundreds of very dangerous toxics." (G) Pulp for cardboard is one part of this nightmare for Taylor County residents. But let's move on to the specifics of cardboard, especially "corrugated fiberboard", or "wavy cardboard".
RSC, THE MOST COMMON TYPE OF CARDBOARD BOX
"The most common box style is the Regular Slotted Container (RSC)." "The manufacturer's joint is most often joined with ADHESIVE." (B) What, if any chemical toxins are an ingredient in this adhesive? I wasn't sure until I started digging for information.
FORMALDEHYDE
Some community gardens have ruled out the use of toxic cardboard, siting the FORMALDEHYDE ingredient. Though this is debated. (A) Not much information about FORMALDEHYDE in cardboard is available, so let's move on to what we know IS in cardboard.
MANUFACTURING STEPS
Lets examine the manufacturing steps that it takes to make a "natural-looking" sheet of wavy cardboard (aka Corrugated Fiberboard)
SULFATE PROCESS
"Fast-growing pine trees provide the primary raw material used to make corrugated cardboard." "At the mill, the harvested tree trunks are subjected to the "Kraft Process", also known as the "SULFATE PROCESS" because of the CHEMICALS used to break down wood chips into fibrous pulp." (I) SULFATE, SO4, is CONTAMINATING our waters near these mills.
POSSIBLE CHEMICALS IN THE PULPING PROCESS
"The manufacturing process begins with pulping, the separation of wood (hardwood and sapwood) into individual fibers, as accomplished by mechanical methods or CHEMICAL treatment." (wiki / 4)
TOXIC SODIUM HYDROXIDE
"First, tree trunks are stripped of bark and torn into small chips. Next, these chips are placed in a large, high-pressure tank called a BATCH DIGESTOR, where they are cooked in a solution, or liquor, made of SODIUM HYDROXIDE (NaOH) and several other ionic compounds such as SULFATES, SULFIDES, and SULFITES. These STRONGLY ALKALINE CHEMICALS dissolve the lignin, the glue-like substance that holds the individual wood fibers together in a tree trunk." "When the pressure is released after several hours, the wood chips explode like popcorn into fluffy masses of fiber." (I)
CHEMICALS IN THE CORN STARCH GLUE
It is a total myth among organic gardeners and permaculturists that CORN STARCH GLUE in cardboard is non-toxic. "CORN STARCH GLUE is used to bond the corrugated medium to the liner sheets. Because so much GLUE is used, rail cars or large tanker trucks deliver it as a dry powder that will be stored in huge silos at the corrugating plant until it is needed. Drawn from the silo, the dry corn starch is mixed with water and OTHER CHEMICALS." "The medium travels next to a set of rollers called the SINGLE-FACER GLUE STATION. Here, one layer of liner is GLUED to the medium. STARCH GLUE is carefully applied to the corrugated edges of the medium, and the first layer of liner is added. From the single-facer, the medium and liner go to the DOUBLE-BACKER GLUE STATION where the other layer of liner from the bridge is added following the same procedure. Continuing through the corrugator, the cardboard passes over steam-heated plates that cure the GLUE." (I) So, you're still not sure if corrugated fiberboard is toxic, then just drive past one of these plants, I have. The stench is unbelievable.
CARCINOGENIC PARAFFIN FROM THE OIL INDUSTRY MAY COAT CARDBOARD BOXES
"Other raw materials are used to finish the corrugated cardboard after production. WAXES made from PARAFFIN or vegetable oils can be applied to make a water-, or grease-resistant container for food products." "Other equipment in a corrugating plant includes... machines known as CURTAIN COATERS that apply a WAX coating to fruit, vegetable, and meat containers." (I)
TOXIC INKS?
On some cardboard boxes "BRIGHTLY COLORED INKS are also applied to create bold graphic designs for self-supporting displays featuring product name, information, and company name and logo." "Today, in the corrugated cardboard industry, designers are creating innovative containers that require FOUR-COLOR PRINTING and complex die-cutting." "Today, inks based on soybean oil and biodegradable waxes and other coatings are BEGINNING to be used in container manufacturing." (I) Are these currently used inks toxic? I would guess, yes. Ah, what the heck, I'll go all out and say, yes they are. Prove me wrong!
LINERBOARDS ARE "PAPER-LIKE"
They are the flat sheets that hold the wavy sheet in place. (B) "Linerboard is made of containerboard", defined by the industry as a "PAPER-LIKE material". (B) These broad ingredient definitions leave legal room for the addition of proprietary CHEMICAL ingredients. "Linerboards are test liners (recycled paper) or kraft paperboard (of various grades)." (wiki)
LINERBOARDS MAY BE MADE FROM "KRAFT-PAPER", WHICH IS OFTEN MADE FROM CHEMICAL PULP
Kraft paperboard is described here (D) and is said to be "paper produced from CHEMICAL PULP processed by the kraft process." (wiki / D) "The raw material is normally softwood pulp from the kraft process. Kraft paper can be white or brown depending on the pulp if it is BLEACHED or unbleached." (wiki / D) "The liner may be BLEACHED WHITE, MOTTLED WHITE, COLORED...." (wiki) And remember, just because a cardboard box looks brown and "natural", is no indication as to its level of BLEACHING in the processing steps.
"RESINS" IN CARDBOARD CAN BE SYNTHETIC / ARTIFICIAL RESINS
"Resin - plant sap, particularly from the pine family. Natural resin tends to be unstable due to its properties. SYNTHETIC RESIN is produced by POLYMERIZATION which then results in the PRODUCTION OF POLYMERS since they are more homogeneous and their properties are more predicable and industrially viable." (J)
ADDITIONAL "LAMINATE LINERS" MAY BE ADDED TO INCREASE STRENGTH OR HEAT AND/OR WATER RESISTANCE
"Heat or water-resistant corrugated fiberboard has an ADDITIONAL LAMINATE LINER applied." (J)
LINERBOARD GLUE (aka ATTACHMENT) MAY CONTAIN TOXINS
The corrugated medium "is joined to a flat linerboard with a STARCH-BASED ADHESIVE." (wiki) "From the paper mill, rolls of kraft paper are transported to a corrugating, or converting, plant. At the plant, layers of kraft paper are crimped and GLUED to form corrugated cardboard." "At the beginning of this process, kraft rolls from the paper mill are loaded into a huge machine called a CORRUGATOR." "Some rolls of kraft paper are used as the corrugating medium, and others are used as liners, the layers of kraft paper GLUED on each side of the medium. After the CORRUGATOR has heated, GLUED, and pressed the kraft paper to form corrugated cardboard, the continuous sheet of cardboard is cut into wide box blanks that then go to other machines for PRINTING, cutting, and GLUING." (I) Do we know if any toxic chemicals are an ingredient in this adhesive? I'm not sure. Again, I would assume so.
TOXINS IN PRINTING OR COLORING?
"The liner may be... COLORED, or PREPRINTED." (wiki) I do not have information on these additives.
POSSIBLE TOXINS IN THE SURFACE TREATMENTS AND COATINGS
"Corrugated fiberboard can be specified by" various processes including "SURFACE TREATMENTS and COATINGS." (wiki)
THINK RECYCLED CARDBOARD IS A BETTER CHOICE? THINK AGAIN
"Swedish researchers have determined that health issues as minor as inflammation and as and as serious as cancer may be linked to cardboard packaging made from recycled newspapers." "Scientists are linking the health risks to the mineral oils in newspaper ink that survive the recycling process." Recycled from what, other toxic cardboard products? "Researchers at the Food Safety Laboratory in Zurich tested 119 products from German supermarkets, with 90 of the packages containing unsafe levels of MINERAL OILS." "The Food and Drink Federation of the UK has called for an investigation to determine potential long term effects." (H) "Recycled material GENERALLY CONTAINS traces of INKS, ADHESIVES and OTHER CONTAMINANTS which have to be taken into account when determining the product strength and print-quality characteristics. BLEACHING THE PULP is a process aimed at improving print quality but it requires further processing and prolongs the manufacturing cycle." (J)
IN CONCLUSION
So, go ahead and lay down cardboard in the form of "corrugated fiberboard" in your garden rows, or underneath your mulch. Just don't call your garden organic, and be fully prepared to sit down to a lovely meal of toxic veggies, veggies that have systemically absorbed proven carcinogens through their roots. Products that require many processing steps can be assumed to contain chemicals that we are not aware of initially. Take for example the well-intentioned, concerned folks who have been buying BPA-free Plastics as of late. Well as it unsurprisingly turns out, "another report earlier this month revealed that BPA-free plastics, thought to be more stable and safer, have been shown to also leach toxins into foods." (H) Remember the precautionary principle - a product or chemical must be proven safe BEFORE it is assumed safe.
TO RECAP, LET'S JUST LOOK AT THE LIST OF POSSIBLE PROBLEMS
1 - Dioxin
2 - Formaldehyde
3 - Sulfates
4 - Sodium Hydroxide
5 - Sulfides
6 - Sulfites
7 - Corn Starch Glue With Added Chemicals
8 - Paraffin Wax
9 - Toxic Inks
10 - Chemical Pulp
11 - Bleaches
12 - Synthetic / Artificial Polymer Resins
13 - Unknown Laminate Liners
14 - Starch-Based Adhesive Glues
15 - Surface Treatments
16 - Coatings
17 - Toxins From The Recycling Process Including "Mineral Oils" and "Other Contaminants"
18 - The Other Unkowns, including the common use of the generic term "Chemicals" in most of the industry articles that I have read.
STILL DON'T BELIEVE THAT IT IS TOXIC?
If you want to stand up for the commonly held, incorrect belief that corrugated fiberboard is biodegradable and non-toxic, then please prove me wrong. Contact TAPPI, the Technical Association of the Pulp And Paper Industry (E), or ASTM, the American Society For Testing And Materials (F) , and just try getting some information to the contrary from these tight-lipped corporate whores, I dare you.
REFERENCES
A - http://perrone.blogs.com/horticultural/2008/02/i-recently-had.html
B - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corrugated_cardboard
C - http://www.thomasnet.com/articles/materials-handling/cardboard-manufacturing
D - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kraft_paper
E - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TAPPI
F - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ASTM
G - http://www.cleanwaternetwork-fl.org/content/disp_article.php?f=issues/032807_dioxin_joyezell.html
H - http://www.oomphorganic.com/2011/04/cardboard-toxins.html
I - http://www.answers.com/topic/corrugated-cardboard-1 ; (This is a very in depth description of the processing steps that it takes to make corrugated fiberboard.)
J - http://www.largecardboardboxes.net/
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Zusammengefasst hätten wir also:
1. Dioxin
2. Formaldehyd
3. Sulfate
4. Natriumhydroxid
5. Sulfide
6. Sulfite
7. Maisstärke-Kleber mit zugefügten Chemikalien
8. Paraffin-Wachs
9. Giftige Druckfarben
10. Chemische Pulpe
11. Bleichstoffe
12. Synthetische Polymerharze
13. Unbekannte "Laminate Liners" (=Tapete?)
14. Stärke basierte Klebstoffe
15. Oberflächenbehandlung
16. Beschichtungen
17. Giftstoffe, die durch den Recyclingprozess entstehen, welche auch Mineralöle und andere Kontaminationen umfassen
18. Andere unbekannte Stoffe, welche die Nutzung von allgemeinen Chemikalien, welche häufig in der Industrie eingesetzt werden, umfasst
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Es preciso conocer el nombre de las plantas para que podamos salutarlas y ellas nos saluden a nosotros. GOETHE
Manche Menschen sind Steine und manche sind Otter. |
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davX
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| Verfasst am: 01.06.2018 10:27 Titel: Re: Wie giftig ist Karton wirklich? |
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Hier ist noch ein Gegenkommentar von Peter Ingot (leicht gekürzt):
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WHERE DOES THE WOOD PULP MIX FOR CARDBOARD COME FROM?
Dioxin- I'm a bit of a sceptic about dioxin. For one thing accusing an industry of making dioxin is like accusing a teenager of masturbation. Dioxin forms whenever any chlorine containing compound (such as salt) is burned, so we have all been producing dioxin ever since the first stone age person built a fire out of driftwood on a beach. It also forms naturally.
(...)
I also don't see any evidence that dioxin is actually in cardboard boxes at all or in significantly higher quantities than anywhere else
(...)
>RSC, THE MOST COMMON TYPE OF CARDBOARD BOX
>"The most common box style is the Regular Slotted Container (RSC)." "The manufacturer's joint is most >often joined with ADHESIVE." (B) What, if any chemical toxins are an ingredient in this adhesive? I wasn't >sure until I started digging for information.
Here in Bulgaria I find few boxes with adhesive. Those I do find are mostly coloured so I don't use them
FORMALDEHYDE
A possible maybe
SULFATE PROCESS
In big quantities a pollutant.In small quantities plant food.
TOXIC SODIUM HYDROXIDE
Toxic because when concentrated and pure it is a strong alkali. Dilute traces of sodium hydroxide in the environment will react with organic acids to make harmless salt, water, carbon dioxide and oxygen. As I don't get serious skin burns from handling cardboard I would assume it is not strongly alkaline and therefore doesn't contain concentrated sodium hydroxide. A simple pH test could resolve this.
SULFATES, SULFIDES, and SULFITES.
See entry onsulphate above. Card does not seem to be strongly alkaline
CHEMICALS IN THE CORN STARCH GLUE
Another possible maybe. Something unknown in the cornstarch glue. It smells bad apparently. Bone or fish glue perhaps?
CARCINOGENIC PARAFFIN FROM THE OIL INDUSTRY MAY COAT CARDBOARD BOXES
>"Other raw materials are used to finish the corrugated cardboard after production. WAXES made from >PARAFFIN or vegetable oils can be applied to make a water-, or grease-resistant container for food >products." "Other equipment in a corrugating plant includes... machines known as CURTAIN COATERS that >apply a WAX coating to fruit, vegetable, and meat containers." (I)
Sounds like we are talking about waxed cartons etc. rather than plain brown card. I stopped using orange juice cartons as plant pots because nothing seemed to thrive in them, but it may be that they just got soggy and stopped draining properly
TOXIC INKS?
>On some cardboard boxes "BRIGHTLY COLORED INKS are also applied to create bold graphic designs for >self-supporting displays featuring product name, information, and company name and logo." "Today, in >the corrugated cardboard industry, designers are creating innovative containers that require FOUR-COLOR >PRINTING and complex die-cutting." "Today, inks based on soybean oil and biodegradable waxes and >other coatings are BEGINNING to be used in container manufacturing." (I) Are these currently used inks >toxic? I would guess, yes. Ah, what the heck, I'll go all out and say, yes they are. Prove me wrong!
So don't use coloured/glossy cardboard
LINERBOARDS ARE "PAPER-LIKE"
>They are the flat sheets that hold the wavy sheet in place. (B) "Linerboard is made of containerboard", >defined by the industry as a "PAPER-LIKE material". (B) These broad ingredient definitions leave legal >room for the addition of proprietary CHEMICAL ingredients. "Linerboards are test liners (recycled paper) or >kraft paperboard (of various grades)." (wiki)
Another possible maybe, Cardboard is a "paper like material"
LINERBOARDS MAY BE MADE FROM "KRAFT-PAPER", WHICH IS OFTEN MADE FROM CHEMICAL PULP
>Kraft paperboard is described here (D) and is said to be "paper produced from CHEMICAL PULP >processed by the kraft process." (wiki / D) "The raw material is normally softwood pulp from the kraft >process. Kraft paper can be white or brown depending on the pulp if it is BLEACHED or unbleached." >(wiki / D) "The liner may be BLEACHED WHITE, MOTTLED WHITE, COLORED...." (wiki) And remember, >just because a cardboard box looks brown and "natural", is no indication as to its level of BLEACHING >in the processing steps.
Possibly maybe,possibly may contain traces of bleach, which possibly may turn into dioxin if it possibly somehow maybe catches fire in your garden and possibly maybe slightly increase your risk of cancer if you possibly maybe forget to clean the surface of your vegetables
"RESINS" IN CARDBOARD CAN BE SYNTHETIC / ARTIFICIAL RESINS
>"Resin - plant sap, particularly from the pine family. Natural resin tends to be unstable due to its >properties. SYNTHETIC RESIN is produced by POLYMERIZATION which then results in the PRODUCTION >OF POLYMERS since they are more homogeneous and their properties are more predicable and >industrially viable." (J)
Yes and......? Are polymers inherently dangerous? If so I had better get rid of all my clothes immediately
>ADDITIONAL "LAMINATE LINERS" MAY BE ADDED TO INCREASE STRENGTH OR HEAT AND/OR WATER >RESISTANCE
>LINERBOARD GLUE (aka ATTACHMENT) MAY CONTAIN TOXINS
Possibly maybe. something toxic has been added here or possibly not. No evidence of any kind has been presented here
>TOXINS IN PRINTING OR COLORING?
>"The liner may be... COLORED, or PREPRINTED." (wiki) I do not have information on these additives.
If it's coloured don't use it. Precautionary principle. Again, no evidence.
POSSIBLE TOXINS IN THE SURFACE TREATMENTS AND COATINGS
Possible maybe
Quelle: https://permies.com/t/40/2157/concerns-cardboard-newspaper-mulch#92217
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In diesem Zusammenhang noch eine Aussage, aus dem selben Beitrag:
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At a protest I was involved in against a waste incinerator(we won!)someone suggested that it would be better to ban the few toxic chemical additives that make most our waste too toxic to burn and then separate and burn cardboard and the like for energy (paper recycling is not always as green as people think) . A similar argument could apply to biodegradable waste.A few largely unnecessary chemicals mean lots of biodegradeable waste goes into toxic landfills. At worst we need to talk to the industry (politely) and ask if anything besides cornstarch is really needed to glue boxes that will be used once.There might even be some environmental funding that could sweeten a dealto phase out toxic glue (if it really is toxic)
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Peter spricht in seinem Beitrag viele Dinge aus, über die ich auch nachdachte, als ich den Beitrag von Andy Firk durchlas. Wer ein bisschen Ahnung hat von Chemie, lässt sich nicht so leicht von ein paar chemischen Namen beängstigen. Ich lese ja auch viel, was so in Lebensmittel alles an Zusatzstoffen sind, versuche teilweise auch E-Nummern aufzuschlüsseln und was sich dahinter verbirgt... das geht ja auch in diese Richtung. Man muss das letztlich auch gewichten und analysieren. Mein Eindruck war beim kurzen Durchlesen, vieles davon ist vermutlich weit weniger problematisch, als es auf den ersten Blick tönt. Zudem wird im Boden auch einiges wieder abgebaut und einige Giftstoffe neutralisiert, sicher nicht alles und man sollte sich schon Gedanken machen, was in den Boden geht, aber wenn dann die Abgase von der Strassen der Umgebung gefährlicher sind als die Stoffe, die man mit dem Karton in den Boden bringt, setzt man vielleicht die Prioritäten falsch. Ich habe den Beitrag allerdings nicht im Detail analysiert, sondern nur mal hier reingestellt, damit ich die Infos später besser wiederfinden kann.
Ein weiterer Beitrag noch zum Thema, der sich auch gegen Zeitung ausspricht, wäre dieser hier:
https://www.myfoodgarden.com.au/organic-gardening-without-chemicals/
(der wird später im Thread verlinkt, bzw. der Link geht nicht mehr, und das war der Beitrag zum Thema, den ich fand, vermutlich war es aber ein älterer Beitrag, vermutlich mit ähnlichem Inhalt)
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Degu-Fütterungstagebuch | Degupedia bei Youtube | Meine Degu-Aussenhaltung (Video)
Es preciso conocer el nombre de las plantas para que podamos salutarlas y ellas nos saluden a nosotros. GOETHE
Manche Menschen sind Steine und manche sind Otter. |
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davX
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| Verfasst am: 01.06.2018 11:16 Titel: Re: Wie giftig ist Karton wirklich? |
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Da in dem Thread auch öfters Paul Stamets erwähnt wird, das ist offenbar ein amerikanischer Pilz-Guru, dem auch ein eigener Thread gewidmet wurde, mit vielen interessanten Pilzvideos von/über ihn:
https://permies.com/t/41900/Official-Paul-Stamets-Thread
Und noch ein interessanter Beitrag, von Kelly Ware (offenbar ursprünglich von Facebook):
https://permies.com/t/80/2157/concerns-cardboard-newspaper-mulch#472520
Kelly Ware zeigt Bilder von billigem China-Karton, der offenbar Formaldehyd enthält mit folgenden Resultaten:
- nach 3 Jahren ist der Karton immer noch nicht zersetzt
- unter dem Karton ist der Boden praktisch tot, keine Regenwürmer, keine Pilze, nichts...
Gerade dieser Beitrag zeigt schon, dass man bei Karton schon aufpassen sollte, es kommt auf die Herkunft und die Inhaltsstoffe im Karton an. In Zeiten, da vermehrt aus China direkt bestellt wird, z.B. Aliexpress und wie sie alle heissen und vieles auch von Amazon oder Ebay direkt aus China kommt, da sollte man aufpassen. Ich denke zwar, dass China auch nach und nach ihre Umweltvorschriften verschärfen wird. Man sieht die Tendenz deutlich, sie scheinen da in gewissen Bereichen strikter zu sein als Europa oder die USA, aber sie haben auch mehr aufzuholen und die Gefahr ist wohl auch gross, dass in manchen Bereichen immer noch die Kontrolle sehr löcherig ist und es dauern wird, bis China ein ähnliches Niveau hat wie Westeuropa und Co.
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Degu-Fütterungstagebuch | Degupedia bei Youtube | Meine Degu-Aussenhaltung (Video)
Es preciso conocer el nombre de las plantas para que podamos salutarlas y ellas nos saluden a nosotros. GOETHE
Manche Menschen sind Steine und manche sind Otter. |
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Murx Pickwick
Quoten-Kobold
Anmeldungsdatum: 23.07.2005
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Wohnort: Runkel
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| Verfasst am: 02.06.2018 22:35 Titel: Re: Wie giftig ist Karton wirklich? |
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Das BfR sagt zu Pappen und Papier im Lebensmittelkontakt folgendes:
https://bfr.ble.de/kse/faces/resources/pdf/360.pdf
Die eigenen Erfahrungen ... Pappen waren bei mir nur dann noch nach drei Jahren nicht verrottet, wenn sie zu trocken gehalten wurden (zum Glück, sonst müßten wir für jeden Umzug neue Umzugskisten kaufen), ansonsten verrotteten sie auch sehr gut ohne Bodenkontakt, solange eine gewisse Feuchtigkeit überschritten wurde. Pappen, die ich irgendwo im Garten vergaß, waren spätestens nach dem nächsten Regen von Schnecken, Regenwürmern und diversen Larven besiedelt ... also die Erfahrung von Kelly Ware kann ich nicht teilen - was aber durchaus daran liegen kann, daß selbst Chinaware (solange es sich um Lebensmittel handelt) sehr gut untersucht wird - sie dem oben verlinkten PDF.
Pappen und Papier auf dem Komposthaufen machten dagegen etwas anderes unangenehmes mit dem Kompost - sie säuerten den Kompost an. Das Gleiche konnte ich beobachten bei viel kleinen Zweigen.
Äste, die deutlich langsamer verrotteten, hatten diesen Effekt nicht (zumindest nicht so stark).
Hatte ich an genügend Eierschalen gedacht, war der Kompost ok, auch wenn ich Pappe und Papier mitverrotten ließ.
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Marx ist die Theorie
Murx ist die Praxis!
Ich habe es endlich amtlich (Mitgliedsausweis der Piratenpartei):
"Der Besitzer dieses Dokumentes ist berechtigt, sich seines Verstandes zu bedienen, Informationen zu produzieren, replizieren und konsumieren, sich frei und ohne Kontrolle zu entfalten in Privatsphäre und Öffentlichkeit.
Behinderung dieser Rechte wird geahndet durch die Piratenpartei Deutschland" |
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davX
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| Verfasst am: 04.06.2018 13:27 Titel: Re: Wie giftig ist Karton wirklich? |
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Die Frage ist jetzt halt, war es tatsächlich zu trocken? Wäre sicher auch eine Erklärung, aber ich ging mal davon aus, dass man so schlau war und das ausschloss, bevor man die Bilder postete. Prüfen können wir es nicht. Was halt bleibt sind Fragezeichen.
Formaldeyd soll ja auch abbaubar sein.
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Degu-Fütterungstagebuch | Degupedia bei Youtube | Meine Degu-Aussenhaltung (Video)
Es preciso conocer el nombre de las plantas para que podamos salutarlas y ellas nos saluden a nosotros. GOETHE
Manche Menschen sind Steine und manche sind Otter. |
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Murx Pickwick
Quoten-Kobold
Anmeldungsdatum: 23.07.2005
Beiträge: 4622
Wohnort: Runkel
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| Verfasst am: 04.06.2018 19:20 Titel: Re: Wie giftig ist Karton wirklich? |
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Es ist auch möglich, daß das Thema Gift in Pappen in den USA nicht so genau genommen wird ... es gab auch in Deutschland mal Zeiten, wo selbst Ratten, die auf Zeitungspapier gehalten wurden, elendig krepiert sind - diverse Lösungsmittel, Blei in der Druckerfarbe und ähnliches machten es möglich.
Inzwischen kann Zeitungspapier sogar von Kindern gefuttert werden, ohne daß die gleich vom Hocker fallen (wohl bekommts!)
Die Kontrollen mögen in Deutschland zwar vielleicht in einigen Bereichen unzulänglich sein und sie mögen auch wenig transparent sein - aber sie haben dennoch bewirkt, daß vieles in Deutschland einfach sicher ist, was in anderen Ländern immer noch giftig ist.
Ähnliches sollte auch für Österreich und Schweiz gelten - nehme ich an ...
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Marx ist die Theorie
Murx ist die Praxis!
Ich habe es endlich amtlich (Mitgliedsausweis der Piratenpartei):
"Der Besitzer dieses Dokumentes ist berechtigt, sich seines Verstandes zu bedienen, Informationen zu produzieren, replizieren und konsumieren, sich frei und ohne Kontrolle zu entfalten in Privatsphäre und Öffentlichkeit.
Behinderung dieser Rechte wird geahndet durch die Piratenpartei Deutschland" |
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davX
Team
Anmeldungsdatum: 08.06.2004
Beiträge: 8494
Wohnort: Schweiz
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| Verfasst am: 06.06.2018 09:58 Titel: Re: Wie giftig ist Karton wirklich? |
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Es ist auch möglich, daß das Thema Gift in Pappen in den USA nicht so genau genommen wird ... es gab auch in Deutschland mal Zeiten, wo selbst Ratten, die auf Zeitungspapier gehalten wurden, elendig krepiert sind - diverse Lösungsmittel, Blei in der Druckerfarbe und ähnliches machten es möglich.
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Das ist ja doch gut zu wissen, dass dieses Thema nicht grundsätzlich aus der Luft gegriffen ist. Nur scheint halt vieles sich in letzter Zeit sich doch gebessert zu haben.
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Ähnliches sollte auch für Österreich und Schweiz gelten - nehme ich an ...
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Das denke ich auch. Standards sind ja oft ähnlich und relativ streng.
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Degu-Fütterungstagebuch | Degupedia bei Youtube | Meine Degu-Aussenhaltung (Video)
Es preciso conocer el nombre de las plantas para que podamos salutarlas y ellas nos saluden a nosotros. GOETHE
Manche Menschen sind Steine und manche sind Otter. |
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| Nach oben |
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